05
Oct
07

Thoughtmerchant offers criticism of Ron Paul as a candidate for black americans.

http://thoughtmerchant.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/why-blacks-should-think-twice-about-supporting-ron-paul/#comments

 Thoughtmerchant blogged about how Ron Paul is not the candidate for black americans.  A rowdy converstion ensued and one respondant, ebogjonson, seems to think all ‘Paulites’ are folks ignorant of race relations and cultists in RP’s “unpersonality.” 

I beg to differ. 

Speaking only for myself I would have to say it is a difference, not in knowledge of history but of  worldview.  We ‘paulites’ tend to believe that all individuals benefit from liberty, and even the beneficiaries of the state’s ‘largess’ are victims of that state as well. Find my response below.

ebog,“The fact is that Ron Paul supporters don’t give a flying a fuck about the health of the black community.”  I personally beg to differ.  As a wary Ron Paul supporter I have to say that a great number of RP supporters do care about the black community.  Please don’t paint us all with the same brush.  Any community has its trolls.  The more conscientious among us are concerned about all our communities but my concern for black americans (not black america, I hate the collectivization of individuals in that term) is part of what leads me to support Dr. Paul.  He is the only candidate who would end the War on Drugs that, in addition to being an unnecessary and colossal failure, has disproportionately and disastrously effected black Americans.He is the only candidate who opposes ‘anti-gang,’ which we all know are just euphemistically clothed anti black, gun laws.He is the only candidate who would end the foreign policy that has led to the current imperial wars abroad where our, again disproportionately minority, soldiers are dying.He is the only candidate who will end the war swiftly, without equivocation, without starting new ones in Pakistan or Syria or Iran or Africa or the Baltics.He is the only one who wants to end a tax system where anyone with a clever lawyer can pay less than your average working family.You know what else, ebog?  You seem pretty fond of rhetoric yourself.  I ask you, did congress give anything in the Civil Rights act that blacks had not already won for themselves?  You wouldn’t be sitting in the back of the bus now.  Rosa Parks and the Montgomery church leaders won your seat on the bus through direct action.  It was the courage of civil right leaders, their courage and humanity, that did the most to end racism and segregation in this country.  Don’t rob them of the accomplishment by attributing so much to the actions of reluctant and halfhearted congresscritters.  It is the continued hard work, talent and interconnectedness of brave and good People that will erase racism for all time.   Don’t let yourself be fooled.  The government hasn’t improved the situation. In spite of integration we have a public school system, especially in urban areas, more segregated than ever.  We have a failing education system that delivers less learning to black children.We have a criminal justice system obviously biased against blacks.And your solution is to criticize the one candidate who is not offering more of the same failed state?  I think you might be a little rhetoric over substance.

Advertisements

15 Responses to “Thoughtmerchant offers criticism of Ron Paul as a candidate for black americans.”


  1. October 5, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    >He is the only candidate who would end the War on Drugs that, in addition to being an unnecessary and colossal failure, has disproportionately and disastrously effected black Americans. I ask you, did congress give anything in the Civil Rights act that blacks had not already won for themselves? You wouldn’t be sitting in the back of the bus now. Rosa Parks and the Montgomery church leaders won your seat on the bus through direct action. It was the courage of civil right leaders, their courage and humanity, that did the most to end racism and segregation in this country.<

    Again, it’s difficult to argue these issues when an antagonist insists on displaying such a complete and utter lack of a clue about the actual history of civil rights movement. Were you asleep in class the day the teacher went over the long history of voter suppression in the US and the ways in which government intervention from Reconstruction on was often the only way black rights could be protected and secured in the face of terror, murder, lynching, suppression and so by racists whites? (Maybe you think the civil war was an ugly outburst of collectivism as well?) This flat-earth “either or” reading – total self-sufficiency vs totalitarian collectivism! – bespeaks a comic-book view of the universe and a fundamental unseriousness of purpose on your part. Rosa Parks and the Montgomery church leaders were intimately involved in the question of how direct action could be used to put pressure on government to produce favorable outcomes for African Americans. They WERE NOT engaged in an attempt to dismantle that government, as they understood that there would be lots of instances where the state could be of use in defending them from white folks who wanted to, among other things, kill them.

    I said that Paulites in the main strike me as unconcerned with the problems of black people, and you only illustrate this by tendentiously evoking Rosa Parks in support of a program that you know full well she would find objectionable and radically at odds with her down. You can claim all you want that direct action is the solution to everything, you can say that the solution to failing schools is to shut them down. But don’t make dishonest comparisons in order to wrap yourself in the moral authority of heroes you have neither bothered to understand or properly honor as it marks you as an amateur.

  2. October 5, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    >He is the only candidate who would end the War on Drugs that, in addition to being an unnecessary and colossal failure, has disproportionately and disastrously effected black Americans.<

    This is like boasting that your candidate is “the only candidate who will fix the health care system” because his platform *promises* (ha! yeah, right!) to close all publicly funded hospitals, shutter the Health Department, end medicare, stop government involvement in medical licensing and so on on his first day of office. It’s a pointless non-argument that bears no relationship to any actual question of policy, governance or history, and largely exists to display the speaker’s rhetorical purity to his small cadre of fellows, a classic example of what Harry Frankfurt calls “bullshit.”

    Paulites in general remind me a lot of Europeans from tiny countries like Belgium, always wagging their fingers and boasting about how clean their subways are and they don’t have a race problem. It’s easy to resolve these kinds of issues when there’s about 3 of you and you all look, pray etc alike, but the Belgians wouldn’t last ten minutes trying to manage the problems of say, Cincinnati, let alone a country as big and diverse as the US. In much the same way I find the Paulites to be smart, honest, right about a lot of things and well intended, even, but also the last group I would call on to solve an actual American problem. “Shut it down!” is a line from a movie, not a policy.

  3. October 6, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    I think that comparing ending the War on Drugs to ending support for the medical system is disingenuous at best. While I, and libertarians in general, think government really should get the hell out of medical care it is not a serious apples to apples comparison. The War on Drugs benefits no one but those employed prosecuting it.

    I in no way claim that Rosa Parks shares my political philosophy. Black civil libertarians were contesting and trying to dissasemble a State system that treated them as though they were not people. I merely suggest that government does not cure racial ills and I challenge you to make the case instead of calling me a bullshit amature, which I suppose is preferred to a bullshit professional. What positive and constructive interaction have you had with the federal government I wonder. For myself I must say very few of my interactions with the state at any level have been positive. Who do you think has the solutions to the problems of race in America?

    I’m also wondering, if you think paulites are smart, honest, well intentioned, and right on a lot of things, why they are unqualified to solve American problems? Are the other stupid, deceitful, evil, chronically wrongheaded candidates more qualified? Generally I believe that evil and deceitfulness are prequalifications for political office, but I am a cynical libertarian. Usually people who think government can fix society have a different standard for who should stand in public office.

  4. October 8, 2007 at 7:35 am

    >What positive and constructive interaction have you had with the federal government I wonder.<

    Oh, please. Even you had to wince just a little after writing that sonorous little whopper. Ever driven on an interstate highway? Ever flown on airplane guided by air traffic control? Ever taken a subway? Ever watched television during a shuttle launch? Ever gotten a federally guaranteed student loan? Ever used snail mail?

    Are you holding a baby in your picture? Was your child born at a hospital that gets any from of Federal funding or federal matching grants? What about you pediatrician or your wife’s obstetrician; Can you guarantee that they have gotten no benefit, sanction, training, licensing and so on from the state? How did you get your wife to the hospital? Did you drive? Did you use a highway built with Federal funds? Does you car conform to federally mandated safety codes?

    I could really go on all day, but I guess when it comes to the health and safety of your child your precious libertarian politics go out the window. That makes you not just an amateur, but a hypocrite.

  5. October 8, 2007 at 7:55 am

    I just looked at the above post and wanted to apologize for bringing your family into this argument. It was uncalled for and written out of anger.

    However, I do stand by my underlying, poorly articulated point, which is that “what positive and constructive interaction have you had with the federal government I wonder” strikes me as essentially meaningless posturing that makes it hard for me to take your politics very seriously. Chances are you weren’t awake 10 minutes today without accruing some form of benefit from the feds. You and I both know this to be the case, and yet you pretend otherwise for the sake of ideological purity.

    Anyway, I’m going back to my neck of the woods. I’m black, a collectivist and a Democrat, so this argument is pretty academic to me. Best of luck to you!

  6. October 8, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    I’m glad I drove all this discussion about Ron Paul, but I wish the traffic was directed towards my blog. LOL. Civil unrest, ebog, please come back and comment frequently.

    Thought Merchant

  7. October 9, 2007 at 12:59 am

    ebog,
    Thanks for the apology. I understand responding in anger. I think you may be going a little too far in calling me a hypocrite because I use, unavoidably, services I paid for under duress. I’m neither posturing or spouting without meaning. I really believe in the central principle of libertarianism, the Zero Agression Principle. In short I don’t believe that anyone should initiate force against anyone else or delegate such initiation of force. The truth is I was once a collectivist, democrat, though painfully white as my picture (and molly’s) portrays. But the sad fact is that all collectivists require coercive control through violence. I don’t trust government to weild such power well. Not even in trade for roads, communal hospitals or funded OB/GYN’s, all of which I truly believe we could have without a federal government that is a burden on production and liberty.

    You are welcome in this neck of the woods whenever. If I wanted you gone I’d have deleted your comments. Private property is nifty.

  8. October 9, 2007 at 1:01 am

    thoughtmerchant,

    I hate to have arguments in other people backyard, but I do love when others provide the liquor that leads to the brawl.

  9. October 10, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Hot off the Press

    “Barack Obama: America’s First Black President–If He
    Were a Republican”

    Check it at

    http://www.thoughtmerchant.wordpress.com
    Politics and Commentary for the thinking person of
    color

    Thought Merchant

  10. 10 ebogjonson
    December 27, 2007 at 12:38 am

    Ron Paul in 1992:

    > Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action…. Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the “criminal justice system,” I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.<

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/15/124912/740

    I had a feeling Ron Paul was a racist, but it’s always unfortunate to have your gut so spectacularly vindicated.

  11. 11 Eli
    December 27, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    ebog,

    Thanks for posting this. My apolitical libertarian friends have been whittling away at my support for RP for a while now, this may be the final nail in the coffin for my support of RP.

    I still think that he’s better than the republican field. No angels there. And I think he’d work harder than anyone else at rolling back the police state. But I’m not sure that it is worth compromising myself morally to vote for him.

    -Eli

  12. 12 ebogjonson
    December 29, 2007 at 11:55 pm

    Thanks for the honest response. All of us have issues that are dear to our hearts, and I know from personal experience that it’s painful to be forced by events to choose between competing moral imperatives.

    Maybe the increasing scrutiny on some of these quotes will make Paul reevaluate some of his propositions. I’m not holding my breath, but…! ;)

  13. August 6, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Riot Points may discover rune pages, champions and various boosts (experience and influence points).
    However, Riot Points are not able to end up being invested upon
    runes. Riot Points can easily always be
    gained for free through several actions (such as mentioning buddies to League of Legends).

    The actual League of Legends Store enables Summoners to invest in more possibilities thru
    Riot Points (RP) along with Influence Points (IP). Riot Points need to
    be purchased utilizing real dollars, although Influence
    Points are gained by enjoying the gameplay.

    Champs should end up being revealed to you with Riot Points or
    Influence Points prior to these people can easily often be enjoyed.
    However, at this time there are a range associated with zero cost champions
    offered to perform every 1 week to be able to give summoners the option to tryout
    champions prior to buying all of them. Generally there are usually quite a few champ sorts readily available
    which include assassin, bruisers, supports, casters, junglers and also tanks.

    Identical to masteries, runes affect game play in minimal techniques.

    Runes tend to be sorted in Marks (attacking), Seals (defensive), Glyphs (magic) and Quintessences (tool).
    Runes ought to be revealed to you in often the Retailer and this is achievable that will
    have more compared to one particular backup regarding a rune.
    Summoners have to pay for their own runes on the Runebook to help reap
    some benefits through these people. Typically the Runebook has restricted number of
    slots for each rune type, but more rune pages can be purchased from sometimes Influence Points or Riot Points.
    Mixing a couple of equal-tier runes makes a aggressive rune regarding the exact same tier, though incorporating 5 equal-tier runes creates a higher-tier rune.

    There are generally at the same time lots of online games including League of Legends in the event
    that you actually are usually fascinated within hoping a distinct MOBA
    knowledge. When people like to learn about a lot more about precisely how to be
    able to obtain Riot Points for League of Legends subsequently pay a visit to, exactly how
    to get free Riot Points with regard to League
    of Legends.

  14. August 7, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    All they need to do is to enroll with their name, email, contact number and country and vemmabuilder will cater to the particular country of the person.
    You might get one or more benefits of outline designer along with it is the ideal means
    to unleash the capacities. You can make corrections directly
    instead of having to search mistake through the code, if something does not seem OK for you.

  15. August 8, 2013 at 1:52 am

    However, there are several online interfaces available where one needs to click on different types of
    options to send HTML code in email or to generate HTML code.

    Wouldn’t it be easier if we could be able to save changes ourselves whenever we want. You wont get a true imitation of your signature with this Android app, unless you can cleverly manipulate the mechanics behind its operation, but that is highly unlikely.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: